Curse

Byron · Jun 01, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

This particular build came about by my impression with the 4 R/W teams that have been popular recently. Damage, considering such attack power, is the pressure on these teams (IMO).

So in that spirit of offensive power, I am trying to design a similar build that has more survivability and less counters. It seemed like the monks on the thumper teams had only themselves to rely upon, and the thumpers themselves went down very easily when the monks were overstressed or shutdown.

Anyway, GWshack style:

--> 4 W/Me split <--

The counter to spike is splitting, and I've highlighted that; a 2 warrior split can carve through NPCs and, if allowed, assault the Guild Lord.

Any and all questions, comments, or crtiques are appreciated.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jun 01, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

I remember seeing a guild battle of sai vs. (some rank 60) on the druids map. Sai had a runner and warrior err and were in their base by 5 minutes. Anyways they still had 3 warriors who slipped by and made it to the guild lord. The people in the match vs. sai said "This is where we said Oh Shit!." They ended up ganking the guild lord without any healing.

Anyways my only problem is if ganking why no heal sig, and whats with inspired?

Zui · Jun 02, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

sai finished at 26 last season.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jun 02, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

My point is that they were facing a rank 60+ not sai themselves.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 02, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Inspired seems pretty useless, especially 4 copies of it. Try stuff like hex-breaker, or even power drain over inspired. At most 1 inspired per team, and stick inspired on the boonprots

Wasteland Squidget · Jun 02, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

I remember seeing a guild battle of sai vs. (some rank 60) on the druids map. Sai had a runner and warrior err and were in their base by 5 minutes. Anyways they still had 3 warriors who slipped by and made it to the guild lord. The people in the match vs. sai said "This is where we said Oh Shit!." They ended up ganking the guild lord without any healing.

That was us who lost to Sai. We had a miscommunication with one of our split teams which let them get out of the base, and they bodyblocked us on the vine bridge after sending their warriors in. It's a good tactic for the Druid's Isle, and is one of the primary reasons why that map is so good for splitting. You can zerg rush a guild lord and prevent a team from following if you're careful and they don't see it coming.

As far as the build itself, I think you're lacking in movement control, especially on your top team. I'd focus more on Snares and Knockdowns with skills like Gale on the ele and possibly Shock on the warriors. Split builds are all about mobility, and Knockdown is especially good because it allows you to easily drop a solo monk. I'd also support bringing skills like Heal Other on your eles rather than Extinguish, since they'll be more useful when split 4-4.

Monks look alright, though I'd prefer Energy Drain to MoR on a solo monk build. When you're ressed as a solo monk you need to be able to get right back into healing, or you're dead again. The 20-second wait from MoR is not something you're able to easily deal with. The energy drain effect is also slightly less trivial in smaller-group fighting.

General Typhus · Jun 02, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Yeah, I'm not really seeing the advantages of 4 copies of inspired...

Byron · Jun 03, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

The point of 4 copies of inspired is to provide hex removal, obviously, since the monks won't be able to remove necro hex hate themselves. Having inspired hex instead of another hex removal was for no redundant hex removal - if you and your buddy remove the same hex at the same time, you won't have to wait 15-20 seconds for a skill recharge, as you would with a smite hex or similar removals. Inspired is also nice since you get the energy back.

The monks have CoP to keep themselves hex-free, and I made condition removal a priority, since warriors need to be clean to be effective. That said, the team is vulnerable to hex degen. I would hope two heal parties and a heap of warrior pressure is sufficient to counter that, though.

Heal sig was the sacrifice, yes. High armor value and two prodigy-fueled heal parties felt like enough, and the warriors needed hex defense. For that reason, any split needs a monk, but the idea was to split right down the middle: 2 wars, 1 e/mo, 1 monk per split. I haven't actually tried the build yet - so I'm not sure if removing sig was a good idea. Personally, I love that signet, so it wasn't easy.
But two heal parties and 4 heal sigs - seems a bit excessive anyway...?

Of course, I think a typical balanced build would be strained heavily against 4 skill-chained warriors in the more typical full-team situations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

I'd focus more on Snares and Knockdowns with skills like Gale on the ele and possibly Shock on the warriors.

I'd love to get gale on one or both of my eles. But what would I replace? Enervating charge, deep freeze maybe?

As for Warrior KD, I'd also love to have bull's strike on every warrior, because it is so amazing. I'm not sure its possible to run a reliable snare on every warrior and have inspired hex as well. I may have to compromise..

Thanks for the input, all.

CAT · Jun 09, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Heres just a few things i noticed..
1. As stated above... ihex on 4 warriors doesnt seem like a very good idea. I think you are better off replacing one of the emos with a necro using dark fury and use CoP on the warriors.

2. I'm not a big rush fan.. with 4 warriors if they have anti-warrior then your only option to kill will be spiking, and its alot more difficult to spike with rush than it is with sprint.

3. I dont think dragon slash is very effective on the offensive split.. and the sword warrior in general isnt that great. all its basically doing its sever gashing.. dragon slash wont be building adren for any good attacks.. and if the target is already bleeding and deep wound you cant do anything

4. The warriors really dont seem co-ordinated. In a normal warrior-heavy build, you usually have certain warriors designed to land a deep wound and others to land high damage with the deep wound. Your warriors have 4 deep wounds (one on each char) so you really arnt benefiting much if the 2 warriors are on the same target, and on a split they usually should just be riding the monk.

4 warriors just seems like it would be too easy to shut down.. and with 4 wars you dont want 2 emos.. atleast have a necro or a crip ranger.

Byron · Jun 11, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

All good points, CAT - I wouldn't suggest a 4-warrior build to anyone, but I can't deny the power of the damage output in itself. This kind of build tries to forego all that support and get right to the killing...I'm not sure if it's possible to do that, however. I hex is there to eliminate the very real threat of necro hate. Normally, I'd have a mesmer with expel hexes in favor of one of the warriors, but then I would be taking out 1/4 of the offensive power.

I was trying to develop a damage pressure capability that couldn't be denied, but I don't think it can work like this.